I want to share a story about (wo)man vs. bear and (wo)man vs. man. This is all rather verifiable. The daughter of a social media acquaintance, Kirby Morril, wanted to hike The Appalachian Trail. She did it solo. She had a bear encounter that resulted in her losing some food. Fast forward, she set up camp with three other hikers, one of which, helped her with the bear encounter. There had been a man accosting hikers, and through the "network" Kirby and the other three were aware of him. So, lunatic shows up at their camp causing shit. Two of the hikers packed up and left, Kirby and the man that helped her with the bear stayed behind. To make a long story short, lunatic attacked them. The man was killed, and Kirby somehow managed to survive and hike out to get help. Lunatic was arrested, mentally unfit, yada, yada, yada. If I remember correctly, after Kirby recovered from her injuries, she went back out the trail and finished the hike. So, in this instance, the bear was the obvious choice.
So my immediate thought about women becoming invisible at a certain age was related to relevance, as if we were no longer capable and had good ideas (and at a much earlier age than men). That is definitely another discussion.
Personally, I am relieved to be past the years of being noticed by men, other than my husband. I am just fine with that kind of invisibility. I'll just leave it at that. I'd still pick the bear (as long as it's not a grizzly bear).
But let me say I’m waiting to get my car emission-tested as I write this and I’m sharing an outdoor patio with a man who knew precisely how many words to exchange before I’d either tell him to shut up and leave me alone or get up and move. I sat down here after giving him a look to check for noticeable weirdness (not the good kind). I applaud such men. Friendly. But not overly so.
can most definitely be from trauma - but also social conditioning throughout our lives, and the tendency of media to pick up negative and scary stories. As I write this, I fell compelled to confess that my favorite junk TV shows are those "true crime" series.
It does indeed depend on the bear - my understanding is that it's a whole different story if you are near a grizzly - and maybe a polar bear, as well, especially if you are sharing one of those Incredibly Shrinking Ice Floats.
We don't raise the bears, but we do raise the men (and women) ... and until we can all do a better job of either eliminating "gender roles" or equalizing the respect for all gender/non-gender roles, self defense classes might be in order, lest we avoid the woods altogether. Same goes for racism.
My morning walks take me through scenic coastal preserves -- with ocean and pond views, birds chirping and seals swimming. Where I live, I won't have a chance encounter with a bear, but I do often pass by men walking alone. At first, it was unsettling, (I admit) but now I'm okay with it.
Yes, it does. I love cities and lived and worked in cities for years. But I was always cautious of my surroundings, having been bullied by men while just walking in my 'hood.
And then there's the indignant man who got showcased on FB for having said, "WHAT? We men just want to worship women and impregnate them! They just must not understand!"
When I had been living in Yorkshire for a couple of months an obbligato of daily life here rose to my consciousness. All over, men are talking with women in ordinary, friendly ways. With apparent women friends, and with chance met passersby like me. Ordinary, friendly, frequent, and with no predator/prey vibe whatsoever. In fact, I recognized it like one brought up in constant wind realizes it only when having stumbled into calms, and finding themselves no long leaning against anything in resistance.
I talked about it with a woman friend, a professional Augustus scholar and recreational Dracula scholar. She grew up in Manchester, 59 miles southwest of here, and went to university at Oxford, 171 miles south-south-east of there. She said it was novel to her when she came to Yorkshire as well, and it took her a bit to recognize that it wasn't secretly an attempt at predation/cjolery/seduction.
Yorkshire. It's magic. And it demonstrates possibility.
That's beautiful. I was thinking about this after a trip to Haiti. This was years ago, the country was also in turmoil, and I was there as a reporter. I noticed -- I was there with a Haitian-American photographer -- that the men did not look at women the same way many of them do here, with that once up-and-down to assess...I hazard to guess. I mentioned it to the photographer, a wonderful and spiritual man who'd come to the U.S. decades ago. He said boys are not raised in Haiti to assume women are there for the taking. That is reflected in their cinema, their literature, all of it. It's not paradise -- far from it -- but the attitude was markedly different. It was eye-opening to me.
And a terrific demonstration that not only is predatory behavior not innate to male persons*, but it's also not some kind of inevitable reaction to life under sever economic/ et cetera pressure. Thank you!
* I never understand why. assertions that violent/grasping/bullying is Natural and Inevitable are inevitably used to establish that violent/grasping/bullying men should be let rip and given all the cookies. It seems obvious to me that the sensible corollary would be limit their power.
Such an interesting discussion topic. I'd probably say a man as long as it wasn't a predatory man in that case I'll take the bear as long as it wasn't a threatened bear. The topic of women being invisible is one that always gets me going. I'm 76 and I am not even close to be invisible despite the fact that I'm an introvert. I feel for women who think they're invisible and always wish I could say something that would them overcome that but I'm not sure why I don't feel invisible and why other my age women do. So wouldn't even know where to start trying to convince they they don't need to feel invisible.
At the same party, I was sitting with two great friends, and one asked if she was the oldest person there. (She wasn't.) She said she always walks into a room and wonders if she's the oldest person in the room. Another said she walks in and wonders if she's the fattest. I said I walk in and think, "Y'all are lucky to have me."
That's interesting. I guess our insecurities or self confidence shows up in our heads the minute we enter a room full of people. I think, "Who do I recognize or know?" My appearance is not a thought. (I suppose if I showed up in a bathing suit, thinking it was a pool party, and everyone else was fully dressed for billiards, I'd feel awkward. Then I'd laugh hysterically!)
There’s been a few times that I’ve stopped to help a woman with car trouble who was by herself. It was clear she was scared not only because of the car trouble but because it was just the two of us alone. When the car troubles were resolved enough for me to move on the women, who were aware of their behavior, apologized if they offended me. It made me sad.
As far as getting attention for being physically “attractive”. Whether you’re a man or a woman, I think you’re really getting somewhere when you realize that a physically attractive person you know is one of the ugliest people you’ve ever met and that you don’t give much thought to the appearance of the beautiful people in your life.
I, too, welcomed invisibility. I suffered more than my share of. male attention that I didn't know how to deal with. No bear was ever my boss who wanted to "show me a wrestling hold" one evening when we were working late. No strange bear ever commanded me to "smile." No bear ever followed my car for 5 miles until I got off the highway and headed for the state police station.
Good Lord. A wrestling move. I once had something similar happen and I asked the man if that kind of comment had worked in the past with other women. I mean, how many women would say yes! Please choke me and show me how powerful you are. This presupposes, of course, that he wouldn’t actually try such a hold and that I could bite back without being bitten. I have only ever punched one man who wasn’t a family member. He backed me into a corner of a dorm room and I made a quick calculation that I could swing hard enough to get around him. I will always be proud of that punch. Sorry, Jesus.
I don't care which. Given my fragility, either might make me nervous, but that isn't the issue, reallly. When I was young, there was way too much unwanted attention. As my ability to walk got worse, both age and weight changed all that. The cane sealed the deal. At 72, I find attention from men AND women is often dismissive or kind of condescending. I am now "honey" or, if I say something "feisty," it's "cute." A bear in the woods may respind to weakness. I know how to protect myself. A stranger? I am a little on the alert, not to be physically assaulted, no. To be approached as if I am "less than," weak, or an easy mark? Perhaps.
But my problem is I generallly like people. It's our cultural attitudes toward women, weight, and age that get me mad. And I do not hide it.
I know I’m not invisible yet but on my way. What irks me is the creepy “friendship” posts that men send on Facebook. Why they think women will respond to them is very sad. I suppose if you send enough out you might find one who does. Too bad the post doesn’t tell you how many of these this guy has sent. Most of them tend to be military or ex-military.
I want to share a story about (wo)man vs. bear and (wo)man vs. man. This is all rather verifiable. The daughter of a social media acquaintance, Kirby Morril, wanted to hike The Appalachian Trail. She did it solo. She had a bear encounter that resulted in her losing some food. Fast forward, she set up camp with three other hikers, one of which, helped her with the bear encounter. There had been a man accosting hikers, and through the "network" Kirby and the other three were aware of him. So, lunatic shows up at their camp causing shit. Two of the hikers packed up and left, Kirby and the man that helped her with the bear stayed behind. To make a long story short, lunatic attacked them. The man was killed, and Kirby somehow managed to survive and hike out to get help. Lunatic was arrested, mentally unfit, yada, yada, yada. If I remember correctly, after Kirby recovered from her injuries, she went back out the trail and finished the hike. So, in this instance, the bear was the obvious choice.
Lord. I am so sorry to hear this story.
So my immediate thought about women becoming invisible at a certain age was related to relevance, as if we were no longer capable and had good ideas (and at a much earlier age than men). That is definitely another discussion.
Personally, I am relieved to be past the years of being noticed by men, other than my husband. I am just fine with that kind of invisibility. I'll just leave it at that. I'd still pick the bear (as long as it's not a grizzly bear).
I was never noticed that much (as with catcalls) and on the rare moments it occurred, I bit back. That did not always work on my favor.)
But let me say I’m waiting to get my car emission-tested as I write this and I’m sharing an outdoor patio with a man who knew precisely how many words to exchange before I’d either tell him to shut up and leave me alone or get up and move. I sat down here after giving him a look to check for noticeable weirdness (not the good kind). I applaud such men. Friendly. But not overly so.
I hear you. I'm fine with friendly interactions. I enjoy them. However, if a new interaction moves toward overly friendly,
...I find a way to exit. (Oops, the sentence got cut off.)
My greatest fear is not what I experience but what I imagine I might experience.
That’s interesting. Our fears are so often greater than our realities (or mine have been). Does that come from early trauma? I’m guessing.
can most definitely be from trauma - but also social conditioning throughout our lives, and the tendency of media to pick up negative and scary stories. As I write this, I fell compelled to confess that my favorite junk TV shows are those "true crime" series.
I agree that some of our expectations about behaviors is rooted in media portrayals.
It does indeed depend on the bear - my understanding is that it's a whole different story if you are near a grizzly - and maybe a polar bear, as well, especially if you are sharing one of those Incredibly Shrinking Ice Floats.
We don't raise the bears, but we do raise the men (and women) ... and until we can all do a better job of either eliminating "gender roles" or equalizing the respect for all gender/non-gender roles, self defense classes might be in order, lest we avoid the woods altogether. Same goes for racism.
This is true. We raise our children.
I wouldn't mind black bears, koala bears or teddy bears. 😊
My morning walks take me through scenic coastal preserves -- with ocean and pond views, birds chirping and seals swimming. Where I live, I won't have a chance encounter with a bear, but I do often pass by men walking alone. At first, it was unsettling, (I admit) but now I'm okay with it.
And isn’t it sad, that it was unsettling? I mean, that comes from somewhere.
Yes, it does. I love cities and lived and worked in cities for years. But I was always cautious of my surroundings, having been bullied by men while just walking in my 'hood.
You always hold your car keys a certain way, so those keys can be used for eye-gouging. Or I do.
And then there's the indignant man who got showcased on FB for having said, "WHAT? We men just want to worship women and impregnate them! They just must not understand!"
Uhhhhhhh....
Right. Give me the bear.
Another... "woman's sole purpose is to be a brood mare" cretin.
And any chance-met man could be one.
That’s the concern, isn’t it? That this won’t just be a man walking in the woods, as are you, but a predator. I hate thinking like that.
Let me testify to possibility.
When I had been living in Yorkshire for a couple of months an obbligato of daily life here rose to my consciousness. All over, men are talking with women in ordinary, friendly ways. With apparent women friends, and with chance met passersby like me. Ordinary, friendly, frequent, and with no predator/prey vibe whatsoever. In fact, I recognized it like one brought up in constant wind realizes it only when having stumbled into calms, and finding themselves no long leaning against anything in resistance.
I talked about it with a woman friend, a professional Augustus scholar and recreational Dracula scholar. She grew up in Manchester, 59 miles southwest of here, and went to university at Oxford, 171 miles south-south-east of there. She said it was novel to her when she came to Yorkshire as well, and it took her a bit to recognize that it wasn't secretly an attempt at predation/cjolery/seduction.
Yorkshire. It's magic. And it demonstrates possibility.
That's beautiful. I was thinking about this after a trip to Haiti. This was years ago, the country was also in turmoil, and I was there as a reporter. I noticed -- I was there with a Haitian-American photographer -- that the men did not look at women the same way many of them do here, with that once up-and-down to assess...I hazard to guess. I mentioned it to the photographer, a wonderful and spiritual man who'd come to the U.S. decades ago. He said boys are not raised in Haiti to assume women are there for the taking. That is reflected in their cinema, their literature, all of it. It's not paradise -- far from it -- but the attitude was markedly different. It was eye-opening to me.
And a terrific demonstration that not only is predatory behavior not innate to male persons*, but it's also not some kind of inevitable reaction to life under sever economic/ et cetera pressure. Thank you!
* I never understand why. assertions that violent/grasping/bullying is Natural and Inevitable are inevitably used to establish that violent/grasping/bullying men should be let rip and given all the cookies. It seems obvious to me that the sensible corollary would be limit their power.
Such an interesting discussion topic. I'd probably say a man as long as it wasn't a predatory man in that case I'll take the bear as long as it wasn't a threatened bear. The topic of women being invisible is one that always gets me going. I'm 76 and I am not even close to be invisible despite the fact that I'm an introvert. I feel for women who think they're invisible and always wish I could say something that would them overcome that but I'm not sure why I don't feel invisible and why other my age women do. So wouldn't even know where to start trying to convince they they don't need to feel invisible.
At the same party, I was sitting with two great friends, and one asked if she was the oldest person there. (She wasn't.) She said she always walks into a room and wonders if she's the oldest person in the room. Another said she walks in and wonders if she's the fattest. I said I walk in and think, "Y'all are lucky to have me."
That's interesting. I guess our insecurities or self confidence shows up in our heads the minute we enter a room full of people. I think, "Who do I recognize or know?" My appearance is not a thought. (I suppose if I showed up in a bathing suit, thinking it was a pool party, and everyone else was fully dressed for billiards, I'd feel awkward. Then I'd laugh hysterically!)
There’s been a few times that I’ve stopped to help a woman with car trouble who was by herself. It was clear she was scared not only because of the car trouble but because it was just the two of us alone. When the car troubles were resolved enough for me to move on the women, who were aware of their behavior, apologized if they offended me. It made me sad.
As far as getting attention for being physically “attractive”. Whether you’re a man or a woman, I think you’re really getting somewhere when you realize that a physically attractive person you know is one of the ugliest people you’ve ever met and that you don’t give much thought to the appearance of the beautiful people in your life.
This is also true. Pretty is as pretty does. I have known some physically gorgeous people who convinced me rather quickly that they're fugly as hell.
I, too, welcomed invisibility. I suffered more than my share of. male attention that I didn't know how to deal with. No bear was ever my boss who wanted to "show me a wrestling hold" one evening when we were working late. No strange bear ever commanded me to "smile." No bear ever followed my car for 5 miles until I got off the highway and headed for the state police station.
Good Lord. A wrestling move. I once had something similar happen and I asked the man if that kind of comment had worked in the past with other women. I mean, how many women would say yes! Please choke me and show me how powerful you are. This presupposes, of course, that he wouldn’t actually try such a hold and that I could bite back without being bitten. I have only ever punched one man who wasn’t a family member. He backed me into a corner of a dorm room and I made a quick calculation that I could swing hard enough to get around him. I will always be proud of that punch. Sorry, Jesus.
I gonna say, Jesus was surely on your side!
I'm so sorry those things happened to you, Sharon.
and this is James Brown's take:
This is a man's world, this is a man's world
But it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman or a girl
You see, man made the cars to take us over the road
Man made the train to carry the heavy load
Man made electric light to take us out of the dark
Man made the boat for the water, like Noah made the ark
This is a man's, man's, man's world
But it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman or a girl
Man thinks about our little bitty baby girls and our baby boys
Man made them happy, 'cause man made them toys
And after man make everything, everything he can
You know that man makes money, to buy from other man
This is a man's world
But it wouldn't be nothing, nothing, not one little thing, without a woman or a girl
He's lost in the wilderness
He's lost in bitterness, he's lost lost
I agree that my life would be "nothing, not one little thing without a woman or a girl"....Joan and Katie are you listening?
Love me some James Brown but nope. It’s not a man’s world. That cedes all great events to men as if women were constant window dressing.
it was sorta tongue in cheek.....
I get that. I probably don't have to be such a grind. But I love James Brown, just cannot sing along with that song.
A longer Substack indeed.
I'm going in to experience both! Tomorrow, I will be in the mountainous woods of NH with men I like and bears in the area. I wouldn't go alone though.
That photo was taken in Avon, CT
I don't care which. Given my fragility, either might make me nervous, but that isn't the issue, reallly. When I was young, there was way too much unwanted attention. As my ability to walk got worse, both age and weight changed all that. The cane sealed the deal. At 72, I find attention from men AND women is often dismissive or kind of condescending. I am now "honey" or, if I say something "feisty," it's "cute." A bear in the woods may respind to weakness. I know how to protect myself. A stranger? I am a little on the alert, not to be physically assaulted, no. To be approached as if I am "less than," weak, or an easy mark? Perhaps.
But my problem is I generallly like people. It's our cultural attitudes toward women, weight, and age that get me mad. And I do not hide it.
I know I’m not invisible yet but on my way. What irks me is the creepy “friendship” posts that men send on Facebook. Why they think women will respond to them is very sad. I suppose if you send enough out you might find one who does. Too bad the post doesn’t tell you how many of these this guy has sent. Most of them tend to be military or ex-military.