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Sally Bahner's avatar

I SO want to see him gone, but I am scared to death about Commanders Vance and Johnson assuming power. They are younger, but insidious, and just as dangerous. I can't begin to imagine where they would take women's rights -- whether it's reproductive rights or voting.

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Susan Campbell's avatar

Then we start the process all over again. Trump is both stupid and mean.

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Sally Bahner's avatar

Sadly, we keep starting over again, or trying to ... Hillary, Biden, Kamala ... and trump just won't Go. Away. I look at my Facebook memories and what was posted then and we're experiencing the same sh*t over and over with him.

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Mary Ann Dimand's avatar

Formerly far-right people ran for elective positions on all levels and lost, for years. Gradually they started winning, then winning more, then taking over school boards and counties and states and— now the US is poised to suck secular public schools dry and fund rightwing religious schools.

They have been bindweed.

We need to be bindweed.

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Stephanie Silver's avatar

Thank you for this Substack and I agree with all it! 👍

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Susan Campbell's avatar

MWAH!

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Stephanie Silver's avatar

Thank you right back at you!!

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Mary Ann Dimand's avatar

It’s bedtime in Yorkshire. I’ll start working on it early in my tomorrow.

I kind of have two representatives. I’ll hit them both up.

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Stephen Hard's avatar

I am not whining, but I don't understand why those who want to see Trump gone don't realize that every failed attempt to dislodge him makes him stronger. There is even a conspiracy theory that Trump planned the assassination attempt to benefit his election bid. The impeachments are not what live in most people's brains, but that he survived them. Attempts to take Trump out (by political means or otherwise) are dangerous. If we go into the midterms with Trump strengthened by a third impeachment resulting in his remaining in office we totally support his political strength that feeds off both his victimhood and his invincibility. Those things are incompatible, I know, but logic has never been a strong suit for the millions in thrall with this man. I oppose in the strongest terms any attempt to impeach and remove Trump before the midterms, as I fervently pray we have them.

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Susan Campbell's avatar

I would like to believe -- perhaps naively -- that this is different, certainly not for all his supporters, but for enough of them that this could go through. I do not intend to sit tight until the midterms. People's lives are being ruined and I am not patient.

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Stephen Hard's avatar

Consider court challenges. They are a crap shoot too, but with the capacity to potentially accomplish a good deal of good. Consider also the remarkable demonstrations of No Kings Day--very effective. Impeachment and a trial in the Senate will fuel Trump's Reality TV presidency. I don't want you or anyone to be patient. I want to defeat MAGA, not assist its metastasis.

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Mary Ann Dimand's avatar

I think that he promotes a legend in which every attempt to bring him down makes him stronger.

I do not think that that is true.

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Stephen Hard's avatar

You need to pay more attention to the MAGA folks. Trump is a master marketer and we ignore that at our peril. The mug shot framed and hung outside the Oval Office? Brilliant. "Fight, fight, fight." Genius. That huge flag just unfurled in front of the WH? The appropriation of the American flag as a symbol of MAGA may be Trump's most effective ploy. The red baseball caps are pretty effective as well. The bottom line is that Trump converts everything to his advantage. We can't allow that to cause us to stop trying to take him down, but it should, at least, make us more cautious and strategic because the things we do can strengthen him. That's why I loved No Kings and favor court challenges. Absolutely nothing in any of that to benefit Trump.

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Mary Ann Dimand's avatar

Those devotees are not the only audience, and I agree that they seem unconcerned with anything but the observances and rituals of their devotion.

I simply don't agree that every attempt to throw grit in his wheels, to speak out against his efforts, to protest them when they have occurred strengthen him. And you don't, either, since you favor No Kings and court challenges despite the reframing of those attempted by this administration by creating police/ICE/etc violence and claiming it was perpetrated by protesters, despite claims of being unjustly persecuted through courts.

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Stephen Hard's avatar

Precisely. Lots of grit, but not just ANY grit. I think the best example was the hush money prosecution. The other cases were vitally important and yet we gave it our all for his having sex with a pornstar. He survived that and won reelection. I am pretty sure he would not have won reelection if all of the details of January 6 or his government document malfeasance had played out before the American people. Even his supporters know he is a low-life, but they don't accept that he has done anything that actually "broke the law." Stuff about women and politics don't count I am sorry to say.

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Mary Ann Dimand's avatar

When I began watching hockey, the then-head coach of the Colorado Avalanche, the legendary goalie Patrick Roy, was urging skaters that not just any shot makes a goal-- only the right shot makes a goal. Thus coached, the team didn't shoot much, and I don't think it did the team much good. As they passed and passed, looking for the right shot, their opponents had plenty of time to set up-- and the goalie wasn't worn down as much as by having to block shot upon shot.

During the Second World War, my friend Lorie Tarshis was consulted by the Canadian Armed Forces, as one of the few available who knew anything about statistics. How, they asked, could they improve the aim of guns to make them more effective in taking down targets? After modeling the question and employing data, he advised making the aim less precise: somewhat scattered shot was likelier to achieve takedowns.

That unfortunately did not appeal to the Armed Forces, and they elected not to follow the advice.

You and I just disagree.

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Stephen Hard's avatar

I suppose I am a sniper at heart and not a scattershot sort of person. My opposition to scattershot with Trump, however, is that I believe it strengthens him and his movement and so is counterproductive. Scattershot gives false hope while also wasting human resources and making our efforts less likely to succeed. But what I've noticed is that it makes us feel good without accomplishing anything. Please note that the two things that seem to be making a difference (Courts and No Kings) are precision operations requiring a great deal of planning and careful execution. If I thought a Senate trial had the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of removing Trump from office I'd be all for it. Trying anything and everything is not the way to go in present circumstances I don't think. Thanks for the wonderful analogy, but it hasn't altered my thinking in this instance.

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Patricia A. Garcia's avatar

We have sat back and watched for too long, AND he has never bombed a country before. Maybe it could be a wake-up call to at least some of his minions?

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Susan Campbell's avatar

That’s the hope.

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Stephen Hard's avatar

It HAS been. The MAGA purists (like Bannon) are grousing about foreign entanglements, but for most of the Trumpsters there is no coherent ideology and that Trump did something is what makes it great. I've already seen a meme blaming Clinton, Biden, and Obama for the situation in Iran. So if WWIII erupts (or anything else) it won't be Trump's fault. It's preemptive blame shifting.

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Susan Campbell's avatar

The True Believers will never waiver but I’m thinking there’s enough gray matter among some people that this is a bridge too far.

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