This is very disheartening. I plan to write more about this soon. It is legalism at its worse. My new recently released book is entitled I Love the Church, I Hate the Church ( www.wipfandstock.com). While this situation was not in the news at the time of my writing it, if it had been it would have had a rather prominent place in one of the book's chapters. This is sad, unnecessary and an example of organized religion putting up obstacles that go against the essence of what religion and faith are all about.
I was raised a Catholic and served for 9 years as a Catholic clergyperson ( ' permanent deacon'). I have served as a pastor in Protestant churches for the last 20 years. People are often surprised when I say that I am deeply grateful for my Catholic upbringing and education. When I hear about things such as this issue about baptisms, I am deeply saddened. This represents the downside of a church that has inspired many people. This is legalism at its worst!
While I wouldn't necessarily put eating meat on a Friday during Lent with one of the sacraments, if an archbishop, with the stroke of a pen, can allow dispensation for people wanting to eat corned beef on St. Patrick's Day when it happened to fall on a Friday during Lent, I would think that the Pope could intervene in such a manner. That being said, Sweet Baby Jeebus on a popsicle stick, the RC church has enough PR issues these days that are keeping people out of the pews. Now, this? (EDIT: I learned in my early teens of the church's hypocrisy. My brother committed suicide and had a full Catholic funeral. Mom was very involved with the parish ladies. I'm sure that helped give the family a pass.)
Hugs and Kisses
Former (much to my pious sister's dismay) Catholic
Utter nonsense. The Episcopal church teaches that the only two necessary elements are (1) water and (2) the invocation of the Trinity. In an emergency, a layperson can baptize; a priest is not necessary. The lives of thousands of people and their families have been unnecessarily uprooted.
Wow. Just WOW. Words really do matter. That's heartening. BUT what's disheartening to me is what I think this situation reveals: the damaging effects of extreme literalism. Like Susan, I'm well versed (no pun intended) in fundamentalist Christianity, having spent 17 years in a Bible-based cult. (I wrote a book about that and titled it Undertow.) Oddly enough, before those cult years, I was a loyal Roman Catholic, having been born into a devout family. I was baptized, etc. I guess when I left the Church, my baptism still counted, but who knows? At any rate, I'm an agnostic now, and what I see happening in this priest's bizarre situation is a gross lack of humanity on the part of the "Church." Two reasons. 1. causing the priest to resign from a job he probably loved, and 2. instilling fear in those he baptized. Now they're worried over the state of their souls. So sad.
It is the whole 'only a man consecrated by another consecrated man to know the magic words as specified by the organization of consecrated men, and who says those words as the organization prescribes them,' can confer the blessings of the Divine. It is so arrogant, and it tries to contain what cannot be contained. The Church is all about the continuance of the power structure it created to maintain its patriarchal power structure. I was raised Roman Catholic. I love the mystery and wisdom of the Church. Its legalism and fear have driven me from the pews to a place outside the doors of the organized church.
Hmmm, I think you missed the right word to emphasize: "He can and does extend His **grace** in whatever measure and manner He wills." I think it's a bit pedantic on the part of the church. Obviously, the Rev. Andres Arango is the smarter of the two to have resigned and found his freedom.
This is all sad and unnecessary! I am quite sure there are many very committed Roman Catholic priests who are totally disgusted with this......It is not an easy church in which to serve as a clergyperson....
This is very disheartening. I plan to write more about this soon. It is legalism at its worse. My new recently released book is entitled I Love the Church, I Hate the Church ( www.wipfandstock.com). While this situation was not in the news at the time of my writing it, if it had been it would have had a rather prominent place in one of the book's chapters. This is sad, unnecessary and an example of organized religion putting up obstacles that go against the essence of what religion and faith are all about.
Amen. And congratulations.
Thanks!
I was raised a Catholic and served for 9 years as a Catholic clergyperson ( ' permanent deacon'). I have served as a pastor in Protestant churches for the last 20 years. People are often surprised when I say that I am deeply grateful for my Catholic upbringing and education. When I hear about things such as this issue about baptisms, I am deeply saddened. This represents the downside of a church that has inspired many people. This is legalism at its worst!
As a ‘Baptized’ lifelong Catholic I consider this another foolish man made “law” making it no wonder so many pews are empty. What would Jesus do?!?
It boggles the mind, but I have the same thought about my own religion of origin. Structure is fine. Legalistic horse shit is not.
While I wouldn't necessarily put eating meat on a Friday during Lent with one of the sacraments, if an archbishop, with the stroke of a pen, can allow dispensation for people wanting to eat corned beef on St. Patrick's Day when it happened to fall on a Friday during Lent, I would think that the Pope could intervene in such a manner. That being said, Sweet Baby Jeebus on a popsicle stick, the RC church has enough PR issues these days that are keeping people out of the pews. Now, this? (EDIT: I learned in my early teens of the church's hypocrisy. My brother committed suicide and had a full Catholic funeral. Mom was very involved with the parish ladies. I'm sure that helped give the family a pass.)
Hugs and Kisses
Former (much to my pious sister's dismay) Catholic
It plays badly, and not just in the cheap seats.
THANK YOU, Susan, for raising this issue- Bob
AGREE!!!
Utter nonsense. The Episcopal church teaches that the only two necessary elements are (1) water and (2) the invocation of the Trinity. In an emergency, a layperson can baptize; a priest is not necessary. The lives of thousands of people and their families have been unnecessarily uprooted.
Imagine how disruptive this is. Am I married? Am I actually confirmed?
They have lost the forest for the trees.
Exactly.
Wow. Just WOW. Words really do matter. That's heartening. BUT what's disheartening to me is what I think this situation reveals: the damaging effects of extreme literalism. Like Susan, I'm well versed (no pun intended) in fundamentalist Christianity, having spent 17 years in a Bible-based cult. (I wrote a book about that and titled it Undertow.) Oddly enough, before those cult years, I was a loyal Roman Catholic, having been born into a devout family. I was baptized, etc. I guess when I left the Church, my baptism still counted, but who knows? At any rate, I'm an agnostic now, and what I see happening in this priest's bizarre situation is a gross lack of humanity on the part of the "Church." Two reasons. 1. causing the priest to resign from a job he probably loved, and 2. instilling fear in those he baptized. Now they're worried over the state of their souls. So sad.
This is the kind of nonsense that makes most thinking people head for the door.
Sad but true
It "might seem legalistic" because it is.
I’m thinking how chatty that phrase seemed and how very off.
It is the whole 'only a man consecrated by another consecrated man to know the magic words as specified by the organization of consecrated men, and who says those words as the organization prescribes them,' can confer the blessings of the Divine. It is so arrogant, and it tries to contain what cannot be contained. The Church is all about the continuance of the power structure it created to maintain its patriarchal power structure. I was raised Roman Catholic. I love the mystery and wisdom of the Church. Its legalism and fear have driven me from the pews to a place outside the doors of the organized church.
I was raised in the Greek Orthodox Church. I love and miss many things about it, but the preservation of the patriarchy is not one of them.
This is not everything that’s wrong with the Catholic Church and organized religion writ large… but it’s what Shakespeare called “a good start”.
Or was that four hundred lawyers at the bottom of the sea?
Hmmm, I think you missed the right word to emphasize: "He can and does extend His **grace** in whatever measure and manner He wills." I think it's a bit pedantic on the part of the church. Obviously, the Rev. Andres Arango is the smarter of the two to have resigned and found his freedom.
As a sister dunked Christian, I’ll share that my AmericanBaptist church covered that air bubble issue with lead sinkers sewn into the hem of the gown.
See? Baptists think of EVERYTHING.
This is all sad and unnecessary! I am quite sure there are many very committed Roman Catholic priests who are totally disgusted with this......It is not an easy church in which to serve as a clergyperson....
Echos of the discussion about giving Joe Biden communion.
The words of THE GREAT HOT DOG continue to ring true.
“Oh blinding light, oh light that blinds, look out for me, I cannot see”.
Well done, sir.
Holy Moly… (I.e the 10th book of Homer’s odyssey)
OK. I snorted. Good one.
I would think "we" would be more accurate, given that priests do everything with the help of God.