I’m not Catholic, but as a fundamentalist, I am familiar with the quality control nature of these kinds of pronouncements. Can I call myself a fundamentalist if I believe there are multiple paths to the holy, and not just our narrow, rocky path? Can I call myself a fundamentalist if I believe men and women were created equal? Can Joe Biden call himself a Catholic if he believes in a woman’s right to choose? I’d love to hear what you think.
Who gets to decide the answer? The individual or the church leaders who set the rules? For me, it makes sense that the individual should align themselves with a church that reflects their beliefs and values. To stay with a church that does not line up with the person's actual beliefs seems disingenuous.
I thought all this stuff was about a personal relationship with Jesus. If He is present in a wafer and wine from some joker in a frock then why not a donut and cup of coffee from a waitress named Shirley.
Funny, I was just listening to John MacArthur preach from Mark on the unforgivable sin. So if this is about that letter to Miss Watson ‘bout Jim (since we’re speaking of Marks), all right then: I’ll go to Hell.
I am a "lapsed" Catholic. I left the church in college when they started trying to tell people how they should vote etc. Biden has not tried to push his faith on the American people. He and his wife should not be denied sacraments because their politics may not fall in line with Catholicism.
Pew found last year that 35% of U.S. Catholics believe abortion should be legal in most cases, with an additional 21% saying it should be legal in ALL cases. The Church is not denying communion to 56% of its members. Some Catholic leaders are grandstanding about Biden, and I'd bet it's the same people who grandstand about being more Catholic than the Pope when they disagree with him on issues like climate change.
Catholicism in the U.S. goes through spasms -- be more inclusive and welcoming! no, people want tradition and strict rules! -- sometimes with adjacent dioceses veering different directions.
This is an interesting data point. Anecdotally, the Catholics in my life feel as does the President. They would not choose an abortion for themselves, nor would they seek to dictate someone else’s choice. This grandstanding is so damaging. Catholics and Protestants are hemorrhaging members and no, a religion isn’t about popular beliefs but come on...
Yes, he's Catholic. Are he and Jill going to have an abortion - at this stage no. You don't have to toe the line totally to profess something! Actions speak louder than words. He is a good Christian!
This, among about 5,000 other poorly thought out points of dogma is why I have totally given up on religion of any sort. And the farther I go away from it, the more inclined I am to believe religion evolved just to lord power over the followers. I’ll have nothing to do with it. Whenever someone brings up religion to justify a social issue, I just cringe. I don’t know where to go from there. There is no argument to persuade otherwise. These people cling too tightly to their bibles. So be it. Hopefully there are more of us than there are of them and we can proceed to grant people the freedom to be who they are and we can act with love in all aspects of life.
It's what brought me back to church. During my own personal 40 years in the desert (I say that figuratively - I was just not into religion or church for awhile), I came to realize some of my ways of being were done without thought and not aligned with my desire to lift myself up to my higher self (as you said). It was by considering Jesus' example that I shifted my priorities and political leanings. When looking for like minded people and wanting to put religious inspiration into social action, I found it all at a UCC church. For me, Jesus became my guide. Though I would not say that guidance can't come in other ways. I will say I could not be a part of a church or religion that includes judgment or disrespect of the individual, and where they are on their faith journey.
Jac, this is a wonderful journey. I’m truly happy your path has ended in a loving, caring congregation. Like you, I find the example of Jesus a guiding light in my life. I love the example of loving without judgement and I try to live like that. I just don’t believe in the deity of Jesus. He doesn’t have to be a deity for me to live by that example. Organized religion just isn’t my bag anymore. And that is not an impediment in my life. I am free. ❤️
Thanks. Odd as it might sound, believing in the deity of Jesus is not a requirement in my church. What I mean is, everyone is welcome, and there is no insistence to accept certain things and no judgment of any questions anyone may have. For me, over the years, it's been a place of discussion, inspiration, and opportunity to put intent into action. It doesn't feel dead and frozen in time, but alive and evolving along with each of us. Cool you found peace in where you are and you are free. It's exactly how it should be!
My 97-year-old father prided himself in his sophistication in being a progressive agnostic, with his paternal grandfather and uncle serving as Republican Ohio State Audior and his maternal grandfather serving as Methodist minister to a Brooklyn parish.
Lately he’s been reading from the Good Book and rooting for Biden. What is it they say about atheists and foxholes?
You are not lazy, you are in love. When I left the church, it was one of the hardest moves I've ever made. But my studies had made it just impossible to stomach any more. I needed something to fill the void. I found it in myself. I came to understand my self better and to trust myself in everything in life. That's a bold statement and I don't mean it in any kind of egoistic way. It was just an eye-opener for me. But I did miss the "safety" of the church and I missed so many of my friends. I found safety in myself and I continue to see my friends, so all is well.
To whom shall I send the "Thread Of The Year" Award? It's a preposterous hunk of brass attached to the most bilious piece of ribbon I've ever seen; you'll love it.
Which is my idiotic or idiomatic way of saying "Thank you" to Susan and all the folks who posted here; this is the closest thing to the church I was promised in my youth which I've experienced in longer than I care to say.
That’s my thought. Can you be a good (fill in the blank) without adhering to absolutely everything in a group?
Who gets to decide the answer? The individual or the church leaders who set the rules? For me, it makes sense that the individual should align themselves with a church that reflects their beliefs and values. To stay with a church that does not line up with the person's actual beliefs seems disingenuous.
Depends on the blank; fill it with “human being” and I’m pretty sure that’s why God made us this way.
I thought all this stuff was about a personal relationship with Jesus. If He is present in a wafer and wine from some joker in a frock then why not a donut and cup of coffee from a waitress named Shirley.
That's generally where I go for communion, though her name is Phil.
I think you mean John Johnson (but everyone calls him Vicky).
https://youtu.be/ah7mS9H_TOM
The Church of the Holely Donut.
“Our Father who art in Dunkin’” makes sense to me, but can a plain cruller transsubstantiate, or does it have to be jelly-filled?
After consulting with Shirley, clearly jelly-filled. Which, when you look at it, is more symbolically accurate.
The Body and Blood, so to speak. Susan, are we going to Hell for this exchange or just a week in the Substack Slammer?
My ruling is no. You both will go to hell for far more interesting reasons. You’re welcome.
Funny, I was just listening to John MacArthur preach from Mark on the unforgivable sin. So if this is about that letter to Miss Watson ‘bout Jim (since we’re speaking of Marks), all right then: I’ll go to Hell.
Save me a seat.
I am a "lapsed" Catholic. I left the church in college when they started trying to tell people how they should vote etc. Biden has not tried to push his faith on the American people. He and his wife should not be denied sacraments because their politics may not fall in line with Catholicism.
Truth to tell, I’m a lapsed fundie. Come sit by me.
Heading that way! 🙂
I made brownies!
As long as they are nut-free (I'm allergic), I'm game!
Oh, hell. Walnuts. Next time, I'll know...
It's OK. It's the thought that counts.
Pew found last year that 35% of U.S. Catholics believe abortion should be legal in most cases, with an additional 21% saying it should be legal in ALL cases. The Church is not denying communion to 56% of its members. Some Catholic leaders are grandstanding about Biden, and I'd bet it's the same people who grandstand about being more Catholic than the Pope when they disagree with him on issues like climate change.
Catholicism in the U.S. goes through spasms -- be more inclusive and welcoming! no, people want tradition and strict rules! -- sometimes with adjacent dioceses veering different directions.
This is an interesting data point. Anecdotally, the Catholics in my life feel as does the President. They would not choose an abortion for themselves, nor would they seek to dictate someone else’s choice. This grandstanding is so damaging. Catholics and Protestants are hemorrhaging members and no, a religion isn’t about popular beliefs but come on...
Yes, he's Catholic. Are he and Jill going to have an abortion - at this stage no. You don't have to toe the line totally to profess something! Actions speak louder than words. He is a good Christian!
This, among about 5,000 other poorly thought out points of dogma is why I have totally given up on religion of any sort. And the farther I go away from it, the more inclined I am to believe religion evolved just to lord power over the followers. I’ll have nothing to do with it. Whenever someone brings up religion to justify a social issue, I just cringe. I don’t know where to go from there. There is no argument to persuade otherwise. These people cling too tightly to their bibles. So be it. Hopefully there are more of us than there are of them and we can proceed to grant people the freedom to be who they are and we can act with love in all aspects of life.
I keep hanging on to the notion that religion can help lift us to our higher selves, but maybe that means I'm lazy and need the lift.
It's what brought me back to church. During my own personal 40 years in the desert (I say that figuratively - I was just not into religion or church for awhile), I came to realize some of my ways of being were done without thought and not aligned with my desire to lift myself up to my higher self (as you said). It was by considering Jesus' example that I shifted my priorities and political leanings. When looking for like minded people and wanting to put religious inspiration into social action, I found it all at a UCC church. For me, Jesus became my guide. Though I would not say that guidance can't come in other ways. I will say I could not be a part of a church or religion that includes judgment or disrespect of the individual, and where they are on their faith journey.
Jac, this is a wonderful journey. I’m truly happy your path has ended in a loving, caring congregation. Like you, I find the example of Jesus a guiding light in my life. I love the example of loving without judgement and I try to live like that. I just don’t believe in the deity of Jesus. He doesn’t have to be a deity for me to live by that example. Organized religion just isn’t my bag anymore. And that is not an impediment in my life. I am free. ❤️
Thanks. Odd as it might sound, believing in the deity of Jesus is not a requirement in my church. What I mean is, everyone is welcome, and there is no insistence to accept certain things and no judgment of any questions anyone may have. For me, over the years, it's been a place of discussion, inspiration, and opportunity to put intent into action. It doesn't feel dead and frozen in time, but alive and evolving along with each of us. Cool you found peace in where you are and you are free. It's exactly how it should be!
My 97-year-old father prided himself in his sophistication in being a progressive agnostic, with his paternal grandfather and uncle serving as Republican Ohio State Audior and his maternal grandfather serving as Methodist minister to a Brooklyn parish.
Lately he’s been reading from the Good Book and rooting for Biden. What is it they say about atheists and foxholes?
I love this so much.
You are not lazy, you are in love. When I left the church, it was one of the hardest moves I've ever made. But my studies had made it just impossible to stomach any more. I needed something to fill the void. I found it in myself. I came to understand my self better and to trust myself in everything in life. That's a bold statement and I don't mean it in any kind of egoistic way. It was just an eye-opener for me. But I did miss the "safety" of the church and I missed so many of my friends. I found safety in myself and I continue to see my friends, so all is well.
This isn’t egotistical. It’s inspiring.
To whom shall I send the "Thread Of The Year" Award? It's a preposterous hunk of brass attached to the most bilious piece of ribbon I've ever seen; you'll love it.
Which is my idiotic or idiomatic way of saying "Thank you" to Susan and all the folks who posted here; this is the closest thing to the church I was promised in my youth which I've experienced in longer than I care to say.