How do you answer? Because of my tangled relationship with God — all things God, really — I normally take that statement as a challenge, even if it’s the best gift someone can give me. I was recently told by someone that I’d be on their prayer list, which is something that happens every time I write about Jesus for print (that link’s behind a firewall, just to warn you). My first reaction is usually “Save it for the hungry and homeless,” and then I hear how mean that sounds. A prayer might be just a prayer and not an attempt at manipulation.
Interesting topic. When it’s used as a comment about how one thinks, it’s such a condescending thing. And “bless your heart” can be an appropriate response.
I often send prayers to those struggling, especially with physical ailments, as I believe in the power of prayer. I have asked for prayers before major surgeries as well. Prayers for strength are helpful.
So I guess that’s my two sides. Belonging to an open and affirming church has been helpful.
A prayer can be either. And there's a lot of hostile praying-for.
Which, along with the aggressive Christianity of the United States is pretty off-putting to a lot of people.
So, myself, I don't tend to tell people I'll pray for them unless they ask or there's pretty robust context in my knowledge of them.
Tangential story: When I was in study and working toward ordination people asked me to pray for them a lot. I am not a list pray-er. I tried, but felt sure that I was failing. It worried me. But then God told me that when I thought of those people it was prayer. (No, I very seldom think God is telling me things. It ws striking.)
I used to think I had to get on my knees by my bed for it to count as prayer. But when I walk, I pray (I'm thinking of people). When I drive I pray, when I'm not cussing out other drivers. Wait. There's a paradox in there somewhere.
I'm afraid that the cussing is equally a prayer-- of imprecation. Assuming you mean actual condemning people to damnation or like that.
I was brought up by a Mensch who was a serious thinker raised serious Roman Catholic, and he (a notably clean-spoken person, more than I am) distinguished damnation-talk in particular. I don't follow him in everything, but I avoid ill-wishing, even during my more cursing periods. (I was relieved to have my naughty language automatically decrease ex post Trump presidency.)
I believe in the power of prayer. And positive vibes and good thoughts. Because every person thinking positive thoughts makes the world a better place. Negative thinkers are a drag. Mostly, when people say they will pray for me, it's because of my physical illnesses. In that case, I ask that they specifically include all the medical professionals that God has provided me cause I'm a medical marvel/miracle. For those who use the phrase as a whip, I respond with "please don't", then spit 3 times and throw salt over my shoulder.
My dad had very close friends who were ministers and when he was quite ill they would say “I’ll pray for you.” His response was always (as a good agnostic/Unitarian), “well you can but as far as I’m concerned you’re talking to yourself.” Said with his MO drawl. He grew up in Joplin and Cape.
The only time I’ve heard “I’ll pray for you” it was clearly an act of passive aggression with a dose of superiority and a side of dismissiveness. I could say “try thinking instead” but that’s pretty much the same thing. Maybe I’ll try “Great! Ask for money”.
I'm not someone who prays but I appreciate it when those who do say they're praying for me. That's because it's been due to medical challenges not a belief I hold. My favorite was when a priest came to my bedside after one surgery. I looked at him and said "Did I put Catholic on my intake form?" He said I had. I asked "Did I put lapsed in parenthesis?" He said I had not and asked if he could still pray over me. And because I do appreciate prayerful people including me in their prayers I, of course, said yes.
I think that's a beautiful approach, that he asked if he could still pray over you. I guess -- as I'm working this out in my head -- that prayer is supposed to be a private thing. You don't pray in public. You don't pray to show people how religious you are. You do so in secret, and announcing, "I'll pray for you" isn't very secret, but if the recipient prayers, it might be appreciated.
Thanks for identifying that this can be an uncomfortable phrase to be on the receiving end of. I have said, in response; "Thanks. And can you also make this phone call, or be part of this group to bring awareness to this cause... (or whatever)."
I try not be combative about it, but to stay the course with what I am really wanting and needing.
Truthfully though - these days, especially - It mostly makes me sigh, and feel tired.
Because it feels so often like it’s offered in a manipulative way, not a “I love you and am holding you in my heart,” which is what I usually say instead, unless I know full well the person wants prayer and the language surrounding it.
If you really believe in a god and you pray you can receive a salutary effect on your brain, sort of in the same way meditation has a healthful effect on your brain. Also if one believer prays for another believer and the pray-ee is aware of that, that action can improve the relationship between the two believers.
But that's pretty much it as far as anything good coming from prayer. To me, the downside of prayer is far weightier. In the pray-er's mind, praying can serve as a substitute for any helpful physical action. And as the saying goes, if two hands helping does any good then it does infinitely more good than two lips praying.
The idea that prayer affects anything extracorporeal is absurd and harmful. Anyone with the bandwidth to step away from their belief system and examine the concept critically will see that. For those who can't, prayer was definitively proven ineffective in this way in the Templeton study of 2006.
Regarding taking offense, I also feel offended when someone says they will pray for me, but I'm not proud of that. Probably we non-believers should appreciate the sentiment if we believe someone genuinely wants to help us--at least the intent is there.
I’m praying for you, Bro. Stan. I kid! It can have such an exclusive feel, to me: I have a direct line to God and you don’t. I’m not proud of that, either, and I’m a believer. The phrase is just so fraught to me. I don’t use it any more and I never used it much. It’s always felt like a slap and not a hug.
Well I can certainly see why that column stirred people up. You quoting chapter and verse and all. I bet they didn't look up any of them but they probably knew the verse about the early church holding all property in common, and they probably know five different ways to explain that it doesn't mean what it sounds like it means.
In this context, "I'll pray for you," probably is meant to manipulate. Either "Thank you" or no response would both be appropriate.
So “Bite me” is off the table? Because I’ve felt like responding with that. Get me. I believe and I get so very pissed off at the language around my traditional belief.
I often use another take on that phrase, “Bless your sweet little ole heart!.” And I am still working to get the sneer just right in the smile that goes with it. :~)
I don't feel like I'm making any sense. I mean, telling a non-believer that they'd be the subject or prayer could definitely be offensive. And if believers understood that, that it's every bit as offensive as a non-believer being proactive about questioning THEIR faith, it might make a believer think twice. I can respect that someone does not believe. I do not have to try to change their mind and if my belief system tells me to include them in my prayers, I can do so without making a big show of it.
I’m thinking back and can’t remember ever making or being made that offer, Susan, but I send ‘em out all the time and welcome them in return, so if someone offered - no matter how snarkily - I’d probably thank them and throw one in for both of us, hoping to capitalize on the premise that “wherever two nor more gather in prayer” God’ll hear us. Of course, I’m always cognizant of the obvious fact that God doesn’t always answer in the affirmative…
Interesting topic. When it’s used as a comment about how one thinks, it’s such a condescending thing. And “bless your heart” can be an appropriate response.
I often send prayers to those struggling, especially with physical ailments, as I believe in the power of prayer. I have asked for prayers before major surgeries as well. Prayers for strength are helpful.
So I guess that’s my two sides. Belonging to an open and affirming church has been helpful.
It's the idea that such a comment CAN be offered with love, and without manipulation. I just hear the manipulation and I regret that.
Amen.
A prayer can be either. And there's a lot of hostile praying-for.
Which, along with the aggressive Christianity of the United States is pretty off-putting to a lot of people.
So, myself, I don't tend to tell people I'll pray for them unless they ask or there's pretty robust context in my knowledge of them.
Tangential story: When I was in study and working toward ordination people asked me to pray for them a lot. I am not a list pray-er. I tried, but felt sure that I was failing. It worried me. But then God told me that when I thought of those people it was prayer. (No, I very seldom think God is telling me things. It ws striking.)
I used to think I had to get on my knees by my bed for it to count as prayer. But when I walk, I pray (I'm thinking of people). When I drive I pray, when I'm not cussing out other drivers. Wait. There's a paradox in there somewhere.
I'm afraid that the cussing is equally a prayer-- of imprecation. Assuming you mean actual condemning people to damnation or like that.
I was brought up by a Mensch who was a serious thinker raised serious Roman Catholic, and he (a notably clean-spoken person, more than I am) distinguished damnation-talk in particular. I don't follow him in everything, but I avoid ill-wishing, even during my more cursing periods. (I was relieved to have my naughty language automatically decrease ex post Trump presidency.)
I let them know what I need prayers for.
Patience, faith, healing, joy. Makes them happy and me prayed for.
You remain one of my favorite people, ever.
😊
I believe in the power of prayer. And positive vibes and good thoughts. Because every person thinking positive thoughts makes the world a better place. Negative thinkers are a drag. Mostly, when people say they will pray for me, it's because of my physical illnesses. In that case, I ask that they specifically include all the medical professionals that God has provided me cause I'm a medical marvel/miracle. For those who use the phrase as a whip, I respond with "please don't", then spit 3 times and throw salt over my shoulder.
(Which keeps the witches at bay. Well done.)
My dad had very close friends who were ministers and when he was quite ill they would say “I’ll pray for you.” His response was always (as a good agnostic/Unitarian), “well you can but as far as I’m concerned you’re talking to yourself.” Said with his MO drawl. He grew up in Joplin and Cape.
Sounds like a brilliant man I wish I'd known.
You would have loved him. Very liberal poli sci professor and dept chair many years at CCSU. And very very funny.
The only time I’ve heard “I’ll pray for you” it was clearly an act of passive aggression with a dose of superiority and a side of dismissiveness. I could say “try thinking instead” but that’s pretty much the same thing. Maybe I’ll try “Great! Ask for money”.
That's an awesome response and I'll steal it, though mine might be, "Great! Make me 30 again."
I'm not someone who prays but I appreciate it when those who do say they're praying for me. That's because it's been due to medical challenges not a belief I hold. My favorite was when a priest came to my bedside after one surgery. I looked at him and said "Did I put Catholic on my intake form?" He said I had. I asked "Did I put lapsed in parenthesis?" He said I had not and asked if he could still pray over me. And because I do appreciate prayerful people including me in their prayers I, of course, said yes.
I think that's a beautiful approach, that he asked if he could still pray over you. I guess -- as I'm working this out in my head -- that prayer is supposed to be a private thing. You don't pray in public. You don't pray to show people how religious you are. You do so in secret, and announcing, "I'll pray for you" isn't very secret, but if the recipient prayers, it might be appreciated.
Thanks for identifying that this can be an uncomfortable phrase to be on the receiving end of. I have said, in response; "Thanks. And can you also make this phone call, or be part of this group to bring awareness to this cause... (or whatever)."
I try not be combative about it, but to stay the course with what I am really wanting and needing.
Truthfully though - these days, especially - It mostly makes me sigh, and feel tired.
Because it feels so often like it’s offered in a manipulative way, not a “I love you and am holding you in my heart,” which is what I usually say instead, unless I know full well the person wants prayer and the language surrounding it.
If you really believe in a god and you pray you can receive a salutary effect on your brain, sort of in the same way meditation has a healthful effect on your brain. Also if one believer prays for another believer and the pray-ee is aware of that, that action can improve the relationship between the two believers.
But that's pretty much it as far as anything good coming from prayer. To me, the downside of prayer is far weightier. In the pray-er's mind, praying can serve as a substitute for any helpful physical action. And as the saying goes, if two hands helping does any good then it does infinitely more good than two lips praying.
The idea that prayer affects anything extracorporeal is absurd and harmful. Anyone with the bandwidth to step away from their belief system and examine the concept critically will see that. For those who can't, prayer was definitively proven ineffective in this way in the Templeton study of 2006.
Regarding taking offense, I also feel offended when someone says they will pray for me, but I'm not proud of that. Probably we non-believers should appreciate the sentiment if we believe someone genuinely wants to help us--at least the intent is there.
I’m praying for you, Bro. Stan. I kid! It can have such an exclusive feel, to me: I have a direct line to God and you don’t. I’m not proud of that, either, and I’m a believer. The phrase is just so fraught to me. I don’t use it any more and I never used it much. It’s always felt like a slap and not a hug.
When someone says I’ll pray for you I say go ahead but if he talks to you let me know
I like to avoid people that are certifiable
That's a pretty clear response!
Well I can certainly see why that column stirred people up. You quoting chapter and verse and all. I bet they didn't look up any of them but they probably knew the verse about the early church holding all property in common, and they probably know five different ways to explain that it doesn't mean what it sounds like it means.
In this context, "I'll pray for you," probably is meant to manipulate. Either "Thank you" or no response would both be appropriate.
So “Bite me” is off the table? Because I’ve felt like responding with that. Get me. I believe and I get so very pissed off at the language around my traditional belief.
You could try the old reliable, "Bless your heart!" said with all the sarcasm you can muster.
And with a heavy-on-the-whine Missouri accent.
I often use another take on that phrase, “Bless your sweet little ole heart!.” And I am still working to get the sneer just right in the smile that goes with it. :~)
I say "no, thank you", and if the belabor the point, I will tell them that as a non-believer, I find it offensive AF.
I’m trying to think of the equivalent statement to a believer. Maybe questioning the existence of God?
Piss off?
I don't feel like I'm making any sense. I mean, telling a non-believer that they'd be the subject or prayer could definitely be offensive. And if believers understood that, that it's every bit as offensive as a non-believer being proactive about questioning THEIR faith, it might make a believer think twice. I can respect that someone does not believe. I do not have to try to change their mind and if my belief system tells me to include them in my prayers, I can do so without making a big show of it.
I say “No, Thank you” I like to be polite.
I’m thinking back and can’t remember ever making or being made that offer, Susan, but I send ‘em out all the time and welcome them in return, so if someone offered - no matter how snarkily - I’d probably thank them and throw one in for both of us, hoping to capitalize on the premise that “wherever two nor more gather in prayer” God’ll hear us. Of course, I’m always cognizant of the obvious fact that God doesn’t always answer in the affirmative…
In my case it was usually was preceeded by a request for action . In that instance I usually gently requested action in this world
Amen.