I can hardly believe the coincidence that I thought the very same thing! I’m more rock and roll than Christian, but as the kid of former fundamentalist, I don’t think Jesus would endorse the prosperity gospel.
Last night I watched a 40 minute video on Netflix titled, "The Elephant Whisperers." It highlights two people who raise and care for orphaned/injured elephants in India. I went to bed reflecting upon their dignity, the dignity of enough, and the dignity of loving service. I don't know their political and economic philosophy (probably not Capitalists, I would guess.) But I did see the teachings of Jesus (and Krishna and The Prophet (MPBUH), and Mother Teresa and, and, and.) Jesus was not a practitioner or supporter of any politics or economic system of oppression. Jesus did, and his teachings still do, point to something human society/systems haven't yet imagined. The Sermon on the Mount is the roadmap. Thank you Susan. You have given me thoughts to be with all day today.
Ah "The Beatitudes"! I think if those were the only words in the bible we'd all be better off. I believe these to be the words of Jesus, challenging those then and us now to take care of each other. I am proud to say my poor inner city church in Hartford will again host a FREE multi course Christmas meal for the homeless population. There are 8 homeless shelters within walking distance of Holy Trinity and our parish does all we can to support them in spite of the hateful rhetoric and ignorance that pushes back. Blessed be the peacemakers et al.....Godspeed.
Jesus would most definitely be a socialist. It's actually not possible to argue against this in any rational way. Same for the Dalai Lama. In fact, I read a book a while ago making the latter claim very convincingly.
I think some Christians get their magic undies in a twist because they don’t hear “socialist.” They hear “godless socialist.” And there’s no discussion after that.
I think that a lot of Christians read only the coffee mug version of the Bible.***
Then, too, as you indicate, people say "socialist" without any obvious definition in mind-- and what is the relationship between social institutions and socialism? It isn't obvious, and every form of polity is rife with social institutions. Markets depend on social institutions defining property rights, let alone the nature of obligations and how they are or aren't promised and enacted.
Jesus's world was dominated not by market economies, but by administered monarchical states. There were markets-- well before Jesus's time, as you can observe through Mosaic law-- but they were features within command polities within which family and tribe administration dominated daily life*. A lot of what he preached, in my reading, was revolutionizing the family and tribe structures by prioritizing those who have been excluded from them-- bringing them from outside the margins into the center.
PS. There were no corporations in Jesus's world, unless you want to count Empire and its machinery, which would be fair. There were family businesses, and many more family and tribal ways of life.**
* Of course, family and tribal administration dominate daily life most everywhere now, too.
** Firms are not the market. Firms are not markets. Firms are institutions that substitute advantageously for markets and then do some interactions through markets. See the groundbreaking, profound, and rather unreadable work of Ronald Coase, or Kenneth Arrow's The Limits of Organization, which is simpler to read yet hard to understand unless you're already thinking that way.
*** Last month I did a brief course on the nature and congruence of environmental economics, Christian theology, and scriptural principles at my church. This one dude came to yell at me for not talking about the scripture that said that if you don't work you shouldn't eat: he was very angry about houseless people and so far as I could tell, wanted them not to exist because his wife has cancer. A couple of weeks later I watched to see if he'd spring up when a chunk of Beatitudes were read in the service, yell, and storm out, but no. Curious.
And I wonder if that guy wouldn't spring up because it's in public and he thought he was chastising you in public, and thus unrestrained by good manners because who's gonna know (other than you and you aren't "you" but you are a target). I'm sorry about his wife. I hope he works out his feelings on that, but come on, dud.
I don’t think of Christianity as taking away all of our worldly goods but rather like the parent on an airplane in trouble, putting on our air mask and then reaching to help others.
And when I read about the costs of some war machine or space project I think about all of the good that money could do to feed and house those that need it. We need to take better care of our own.
There are also the parables of the Great Feast, in Luke 14, and Lazarus and the Rich Man, in Luke 16.
It seems to me the only Jesus that MAGAs know is the one depicted in the Book of Revelation, a book so problematic that the Orthodox Church does not include any readings from it in the lectionary. Their Bible must be heavily redacted, despite all their claims to have read it cover-to-cover.
MAGAs look forward to the Final Battle, but Jesus preached the Great Feast.
We fundamentalists mostly danced around Revelation, mainly because it IS problematic and we couldn't figure out what the prophesies mean, if they were, in fact, prophesies.
"When I feed the poor, they call me a saint, but when I ask why the poor are hungry, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara, Archbishop of Recife in Brazil
What you said, How can you be a Christian and say nay to school lunch programs and other government programs that “lift up the vulnerable.” Amen! Get your out of your counting house and read the Book.
Spot on...
This immediately made me think of this song called "On The Turning Away" by Pink Floyd:
On the turning away
From the pale and downtrodden
And the words they say
Which we won't understand
Don't accept that what's happening
Is just a case of others' suffering
Or you'll find that you're joining in
The turning away
It's a sin that somehow
Light is changing to shadow
And casting its shroud
Over all we have known
Unaware how the ranks have grown
Driven on by a heart of stone
We could find that we're all alone
In the dream of the proud
On the wings of the night
As the daytime is stirring
Where the speechless unite in a silent accord
Using words, you will find, are strange
Mesmerised as they light the flame
Feel the new wind of change
On the wings of the night
No more turning away
From the weak and the weary
No more turning away
From the coldness inside
Just a world that we all must share
It's not enough just to stand and stare
Is it only a dream that there'll be
No more turning away?
I can hardly believe the coincidence that I thought the very same thing! I’m more rock and roll than Christian, but as the kid of former fundamentalist, I don’t think Jesus would endorse the prosperity gospel.
It’s a great hymn, isn’t it?
Indeed
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ojf18wT_Xtk
Wow. I’d forgotten this. Thank you.
Last night I watched a 40 minute video on Netflix titled, "The Elephant Whisperers." It highlights two people who raise and care for orphaned/injured elephants in India. I went to bed reflecting upon their dignity, the dignity of enough, and the dignity of loving service. I don't know their political and economic philosophy (probably not Capitalists, I would guess.) But I did see the teachings of Jesus (and Krishna and The Prophet (MPBUH), and Mother Teresa and, and, and.) Jesus was not a practitioner or supporter of any politics or economic system of oppression. Jesus did, and his teachings still do, point to something human society/systems haven't yet imagined. The Sermon on the Mount is the roadmap. Thank you Susan. You have given me thoughts to be with all day today.
Ah "The Beatitudes"! I think if those were the only words in the bible we'd all be better off. I believe these to be the words of Jesus, challenging those then and us now to take care of each other. I am proud to say my poor inner city church in Hartford will again host a FREE multi course Christmas meal for the homeless population. There are 8 homeless shelters within walking distance of Holy Trinity and our parish does all we can to support them in spite of the hateful rhetoric and ignorance that pushes back. Blessed be the peacemakers et al.....Godspeed.
Would make a great political platform.
Luke 12, 13-15 must have been left out of THEIR Bible???
More scriptural reference!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yY3HUDhe7jk
When I saw twenty-six comments, I figured someone would have beaten me to it.
Jesus would most definitely be a socialist. It's actually not possible to argue against this in any rational way. Same for the Dalai Lama. In fact, I read a book a while ago making the latter claim very convincingly.
I think some Christians get their magic undies in a twist because they don’t hear “socialist.” They hear “godless socialist.” And there’s no discussion after that.
I think that a lot of Christians read only the coffee mug version of the Bible.***
Then, too, as you indicate, people say "socialist" without any obvious definition in mind-- and what is the relationship between social institutions and socialism? It isn't obvious, and every form of polity is rife with social institutions. Markets depend on social institutions defining property rights, let alone the nature of obligations and how they are or aren't promised and enacted.
Jesus's world was dominated not by market economies, but by administered monarchical states. There were markets-- well before Jesus's time, as you can observe through Mosaic law-- but they were features within command polities within which family and tribe administration dominated daily life*. A lot of what he preached, in my reading, was revolutionizing the family and tribe structures by prioritizing those who have been excluded from them-- bringing them from outside the margins into the center.
PS. There were no corporations in Jesus's world, unless you want to count Empire and its machinery, which would be fair. There were family businesses, and many more family and tribal ways of life.**
* Of course, family and tribal administration dominate daily life most everywhere now, too.
** Firms are not the market. Firms are not markets. Firms are institutions that substitute advantageously for markets and then do some interactions through markets. See the groundbreaking, profound, and rather unreadable work of Ronald Coase, or Kenneth Arrow's The Limits of Organization, which is simpler to read yet hard to understand unless you're already thinking that way.
*** Last month I did a brief course on the nature and congruence of environmental economics, Christian theology, and scriptural principles at my church. This one dude came to yell at me for not talking about the scripture that said that if you don't work you shouldn't eat: he was very angry about houseless people and so far as I could tell, wanted them not to exist because his wife has cancer. A couple of weeks later I watched to see if he'd spring up when a chunk of Beatitudes were read in the service, yell, and storm out, but no. Curious.
Now I can add to my reading list. Thank you.
And I wonder if that guy wouldn't spring up because it's in public and he thought he was chastising you in public, and thus unrestrained by good manners because who's gonna know (other than you and you aren't "you" but you are a target). I'm sorry about his wife. I hope he works out his feelings on that, but come on, dud.
Oh, he yelled at me in smaller public. His wife was there and spoke for the involuntary poverty of many unhoused people.
I expect that he's used to it being Important and Magisterial when he's angry and/or yells. Basic white masculine training in the US.
I don’t think of Christianity as taking away all of our worldly goods but rather like the parent on an airplane in trouble, putting on our air mask and then reaching to help others.
And when I read about the costs of some war machine or space project I think about all of the good that money could do to feed and house those that need it. We need to take better care of our own.
There are also the parables of the Great Feast, in Luke 14, and Lazarus and the Rich Man, in Luke 16.
It seems to me the only Jesus that MAGAs know is the one depicted in the Book of Revelation, a book so problematic that the Orthodox Church does not include any readings from it in the lectionary. Their Bible must be heavily redacted, despite all their claims to have read it cover-to-cover.
MAGAs look forward to the Final Battle, but Jesus preached the Great Feast.
We fundamentalists mostly danced around Revelation, mainly because it IS problematic and we couldn't figure out what the prophesies mean, if they were, in fact, prophesies.
Yup, I still remember that one! Thanks, Susan, for pointing this out!
I have folks who lost their means to Olsteen. She was buried in an unmarked grave.
Oh my God. Someone gave to that fraud until they had nothing?
Yup, at least in the area of Joplin where my folks lived! Aunt Annie DeGonia: may she rest in your Jesus’ arms.
I'm sorry for your loss and shame on that fraud for milking her finances dry.
"When I feed the poor, they call me a saint, but when I ask why the poor are hungry, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara, Archbishop of Recife in Brazil
Most excellent quote. Thank you.
What you said, How can you be a Christian and say nay to school lunch programs and other government programs that “lift up the vulnerable.” Amen! Get your out of your counting house and read the Book.
*an unlikely *
I can imagine it. I don't see it happening, but I can sure imagine it.