An old classmate friend, who is gay and was possibly raised a Catholic, asked the question on FB last night, "Can you be both Catholic and Gay?" It was so interesting to read the responses. One suggested a better question might be, can you be Catholic and Gay and well-adjusted? Another asked, how can you have a healthy spiritual life. It was interesting. It leads me to also wonder, can you be Catholic (or Baptist) and supportive of LGBTQ? What speaks louder, words or religious affiliation?
I've thought about this. For myself, I couldn't be fundamentalist and well-adjusted. I couldn't continue to embrace a religion that was so exclusive, but I understand people who stay and seek to make change from within.
I wonder how people who are gay, and left the church due to the feelings of rejection, feel about those close to them who stay and continue to support the church? Does their staying feel unsupportive? Does the continued church affiliation make other words of support sound hollow? I'm thinking about what genuine LGBTQ alliance would look like from the LGBTQ perspective. And there very well may be multiple views on it.
As a gay man and raised Catholic, it is hard to reconcile someone you are close to staying in the Catholic church when these kinds of proclamations are made. But over time I've found there is a distinction. I have siblings and friends who have stayed in the Catholic church but accept my husband and me completely. We have been together 34 years and none of our 17 niece and nephews were born until after we were together. So they have never not known us together and most have stopped going to the Catholic Church as soon as they were on their own. I find the fact that these siblings and some friend stay is more about laziness and habit... which is annoying. I have not found any of these people have any desire to change things from the inside. Going to the Catholic Church is their weekly routine and it's easy. I don't like that but what's more upsetting is someone who truly believes what the church is saying. For my siblings and the people who don't believe what the church says, I have said, take a stand and leave. But having grown up in the church some people find it hard to leave and not feel like you are a sinner or they are going to hell. Very complicated. Now... the people who stay in the church and believe what the church says, I've had to cut out of my life. There is no sense being friends with someone who thinks you should go to hell for being yourself. There have been enough of those people. And as far as the Pope and the Catholic Church, F**k them.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have family members who were raised Catholic and are gay. Some in the family stayed and some left. I was never a Catholic, so it was never a decision I had to make. From the outside, it seems like it should be an easy choice. The older generation probably won't ever leave, for the reasons you stated - habit, routine, familiarity and fear. Though they say things should change, they know they cannot change what the Vatican decides to dictate. Still, it bothers me a lot that they stay. The younger generation seems to be walking away more easily - because the church doesn't line up with their values. That makes sense to me. I don't know you, but I stand with you.
Thank you so much for your response. What is interesting is my mother at 70 left the church when she realized they were saying her children were sinners (gay/two divorced). She went all through Catholic school, worked as a secretary in the office of a Catholic school, and brought us up very Catholic. But don't tell a mama bear her kids are not good enough... she walked out during a sermon being preached, angrily clicking her high heels on the linoleum floor and pushed through the double doors and never looked back. When she went into a nursing home 10 years later with Alzheimer's she was asked if she wanted a priest to come visit. She had a lot of confusion by that point but her answer was crystal clear, "don't ever let a Catholic priest come through that door... I have not use for them." I feel if my siblings or friends had an LGBTQ child they may have a different kind of response. But knowing a siblings or friend is LGBTQ doesn't bring out that kind of protective instinct. It's a weird thing for me to experience but have chosen not to cut ties with those people based on more than this one part of their lives because their other actions tell a different story. As I said, it's annoying that it's laziness, and habit. But it takes looking at the larger picture for me, even though it seems the decision should be clear. .
That makes sense. Family relationships are especially complicated and the larger picture includes a lot. I'm just so impressed with your story of your mom walking out. It's so powerful and loving, and not everyone is so lucky.
As a woman who grew up in an extremely patriarchal church, I can only say I understand a reluctance to leave, especially if you feel you can do more from within. That’s just me. I left. I have made scant little change from without. Others choose to rebel in place.
And so I must be closer to Jesus in the morning than later on when I've dragged a comb across my head. This makes sense.
Again: Fish 24:7: The higher the hair, the closer to Jesus. Stop combing your hair. Start teasing it into a high bouffant.
An old classmate friend, who is gay and was possibly raised a Catholic, asked the question on FB last night, "Can you be both Catholic and Gay?" It was so interesting to read the responses. One suggested a better question might be, can you be Catholic and Gay and well-adjusted? Another asked, how can you have a healthy spiritual life. It was interesting. It leads me to also wonder, can you be Catholic (or Baptist) and supportive of LGBTQ? What speaks louder, words or religious affiliation?
I've thought about this. For myself, I couldn't be fundamentalist and well-adjusted. I couldn't continue to embrace a religion that was so exclusive, but I understand people who stay and seek to make change from within.
I wonder how people who are gay, and left the church due to the feelings of rejection, feel about those close to them who stay and continue to support the church? Does their staying feel unsupportive? Does the continued church affiliation make other words of support sound hollow? I'm thinking about what genuine LGBTQ alliance would look like from the LGBTQ perspective. And there very well may be multiple views on it.
As a gay man and raised Catholic, it is hard to reconcile someone you are close to staying in the Catholic church when these kinds of proclamations are made. But over time I've found there is a distinction. I have siblings and friends who have stayed in the Catholic church but accept my husband and me completely. We have been together 34 years and none of our 17 niece and nephews were born until after we were together. So they have never not known us together and most have stopped going to the Catholic Church as soon as they were on their own. I find the fact that these siblings and some friend stay is more about laziness and habit... which is annoying. I have not found any of these people have any desire to change things from the inside. Going to the Catholic Church is their weekly routine and it's easy. I don't like that but what's more upsetting is someone who truly believes what the church is saying. For my siblings and the people who don't believe what the church says, I have said, take a stand and leave. But having grown up in the church some people find it hard to leave and not feel like you are a sinner or they are going to hell. Very complicated. Now... the people who stay in the church and believe what the church says, I've had to cut out of my life. There is no sense being friends with someone who thinks you should go to hell for being yourself. There have been enough of those people. And as far as the Pope and the Catholic Church, F**k them.
I love you and I don't care who knows it.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have family members who were raised Catholic and are gay. Some in the family stayed and some left. I was never a Catholic, so it was never a decision I had to make. From the outside, it seems like it should be an easy choice. The older generation probably won't ever leave, for the reasons you stated - habit, routine, familiarity and fear. Though they say things should change, they know they cannot change what the Vatican decides to dictate. Still, it bothers me a lot that they stay. The younger generation seems to be walking away more easily - because the church doesn't line up with their values. That makes sense to me. I don't know you, but I stand with you.
Thank you so much for your response. What is interesting is my mother at 70 left the church when she realized they were saying her children were sinners (gay/two divorced). She went all through Catholic school, worked as a secretary in the office of a Catholic school, and brought us up very Catholic. But don't tell a mama bear her kids are not good enough... she walked out during a sermon being preached, angrily clicking her high heels on the linoleum floor and pushed through the double doors and never looked back. When she went into a nursing home 10 years later with Alzheimer's she was asked if she wanted a priest to come visit. She had a lot of confusion by that point but her answer was crystal clear, "don't ever let a Catholic priest come through that door... I have not use for them." I feel if my siblings or friends had an LGBTQ child they may have a different kind of response. But knowing a siblings or friend is LGBTQ doesn't bring out that kind of protective instinct. It's a weird thing for me to experience but have chosen not to cut ties with those people based on more than this one part of their lives because their other actions tell a different story. As I said, it's annoying that it's laziness, and habit. But it takes looking at the larger picture for me, even though it seems the decision should be clear. .
That makes sense. Family relationships are especially complicated and the larger picture includes a lot. I'm just so impressed with your story of your mom walking out. It's so powerful and loving, and not everyone is so lucky.
As a woman who grew up in an extremely patriarchal church, I can only say I understand a reluctance to leave, especially if you feel you can do more from within. That’s just me. I left. I have made scant little change from without. Others choose to rebel in place.