I have no idea how Christianity got so far away from this. Thank you for always speaking from your experience and speaking out for kindness and love. I am grateful for your voice on this.
When Ms. Bad Ass was writing for the Courant, that is the biggest thing that struck me about her. It was like she was the first "holy roller" in my world that had a clue.
The B-I-B-L-E has always been misused and misquoted, especially the Old Testament. As a former social worker, I heard enough of it to supposedly justify abusers behaviors.
Like you and others here, I believe in the “do unto others”, WWJD themes. The Bible was written by men, not God. And how did Cain and Abel find wives or sire sons?
We used to, for sport, poke holes in the logic of the Bible while our Sunday school teachers (all men) pulled out their hair (all bald). Some of this stuff you take on faith, but not the nasty stuff. I mean, seeking to literally interpret the verses is a fool's errand. I would know this form personal experience.
Right. For example, Doesn't Deuteronomy 22:5 assume there is some sort of Godly definition of men's apparel and women's apparel? And that we haven't change our apparel styles since the beginning of humankind? It's kind of ridiculous. And let's think about how ridiculous it is to think an almighty God would care what we wore when according to the Bible, God made us naked!
When you consider that Jesus would have been studying the "Old Testament", it seems clear that he was still able to believe yet follow a path of love and justice. Can the rest of us not find a way?
Something I've been tiresomely saying for years is that romantic and sexual relationships aren't a whole separate thing from all other human relationship, and that despite the many and varied perspectives in the Bible, most of those texts, most of the time, bing the message: "Do not treat other human beings as commodities, props, or trash, but as God's beloved children."
I 100% agree with your point! Way too many cherry pick from the Bible to create their own story and view. However, there are some conflicting messages in the Bible. It can easily be misused.
What if religion (or the Bible) did not exist? We would be responsible for our own actions and choices, and nothing could be forced on anyone in the name of honoring a particular group's view of their God. God would not be used as justification for behavior. Imagine the power that would be taken away from some people (mostly men). I wonder what the world might look like.
Cherry-picking is killing us. I think about a world without religion and I look to my atheist friends for guidance on this. I'm a believer, but there is something to be said about being good for goodness' sake, for creating heaven on earth by your good acts.
I know I am repeating myself mentioning the The Beatitudes, but Jesus speaking those words laid it out in lavender....too bad the EVILgleicals and "money center" churches don't stress them in their 'teachings'?!?
But what about those haters out there that seem to take pleasure watching the peaceniks and others who try loving unconventionally? I am ashamed of my feelings for about 3 folks in this world: 1) a sibling that’d shoot me in a heartbeat, 2) the pastor in the town I lived in, 3) Ron Destroys. Sometimes I can’t even swallow.
Cognitive speaking yes, bodily speaking not so much. I know I have the right, for true, but that ingrained fucked feeling is tough for me. I’m often self-righteous and that’s a fault folks roll they eyes at, ya know? I ride high horses and fall off and bust my butt, often. And you know where my mouth winds up at times, often. Humph, I’ll whip out a blade and challenge a gun toting cowboy, but my knees buckle at first hint of guilt, bah. I’m my own worst enemy. But otherwise I’ll buck it up.” And I LIKE it.
I just finished reading How to Read the Bible and Still Be a Christian: Struggling with Divine Violence from Genesis Through Revelation, by John Dominic Crossan. It's dense reading, and I wish it were at least twice as long, but the point is that the Bible is replete with examples of the struggle between God's radical dream for the resources of our Earth to be distributed fairly and non-violently among all its people, and on the other hand, civilization's normality that urges me to keep what is mine, to get what is yours, and to acquire more and more forever. He uses examples from the stories of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Paul to illustrate his points, but I think the dichotomy is most obvious in the letters of Paul. Scholars generally agree that 7 were certainly written by Paul, 3 were probably not written by him, and 3 were certainly not written by him. Hence we have the stark contrast of the Paul who dismisses the patriarchy and hierarchies of civilization's normalcy, with the anti-Paul who wrote that slaves must obey their masters and women must be silent in church. The same thing happened to the stories told about Jesus in the four Gospels, but the divisions are less clear cut, with the pull back to the status quo of civilization interspersed with the radicality of God's message of distributive justice.
This book cleared up a lot of my questions, especially how different people could claim to be reading the same book(s) and yet come away with entirely different pictures of who Jesus was and whether his message was one of radical inclusivity or radical punishment (e.g., the Jesus of John's Revelation).
I was raised Catholic. My first evidence of hypocrisy was when my brother died. He committed suicide. That's a big no no in the Catholic religion. Translation: No funeral in the church. BUT, because my mother was very involved with the church, they turned a blind eye to it. I was a sophomore in high school and could see the glaring hypocrisy in that. This was 46 years ago, and it still pisses me off. I also attended a wedding where the groom was on his 3rd marriage. The bride's uncle was a priest. Then there was the couple where one was getting an annulment. Everything was on track, wedding invites printed, and then all of the sudden there was a last minute glitch that a payment of $2,000 could magically fix. Needless to say, they told the archdiocese to piss off, found a non-demonational chapel to marry in and reprinted part of the wedding invites. When I would say I was pro-choice, I was told I couldn't pick and choose what to believe in the bible as it is not a "cafeteria plan". As for the topic at hand, this is reason #4 as to why I no longer am a believer. I don't want to be part of a "club" that gets off on hate. AND to the members of this club, I would reiterate that the bible is not a "cafeteria plan".
If God is all-loving and all-forgiving, and we are to treat others as we want to be treated, what more do we need to know to change the world?
Amen.
It really is simple
And uncomplicated.
I have no idea how Christianity got so far away from this. Thank you for always speaking from your experience and speaking out for kindness and love. I am grateful for your voice on this.
And I am grateful for yours. Thank you.
When Ms. Bad Ass was writing for the Courant, that is the biggest thing that struck me about her. It was like she was the first "holy roller" in my world that had a clue.
The B-I-B-L-E has always been misused and misquoted, especially the Old Testament. As a former social worker, I heard enough of it to supposedly justify abusers behaviors.
Like you and others here, I believe in the “do unto others”, WWJD themes. The Bible was written by men, not God. And how did Cain and Abel find wives or sire sons?
We used to, for sport, poke holes in the logic of the Bible while our Sunday school teachers (all men) pulled out their hair (all bald). Some of this stuff you take on faith, but not the nasty stuff. I mean, seeking to literally interpret the verses is a fool's errand. I would know this form personal experience.
Right. For example, Doesn't Deuteronomy 22:5 assume there is some sort of Godly definition of men's apparel and women's apparel? And that we haven't change our apparel styles since the beginning of humankind? It's kind of ridiculous. And let's think about how ridiculous it is to think an almighty God would care what we wore when according to the Bible, God made us naked!
When you consider that Jesus would have been studying the "Old Testament", it seems clear that he was still able to believe yet follow a path of love and justice. Can the rest of us not find a way?
Something I've been tiresomely saying for years is that romantic and sexual relationships aren't a whole separate thing from all other human relationship, and that despite the many and varied perspectives in the Bible, most of those texts, most of the time, bing the message: "Do not treat other human beings as commodities, props, or trash, but as God's beloved children."
That's an excellent, boiled-down summation.
I 100% agree with your point! Way too many cherry pick from the Bible to create their own story and view. However, there are some conflicting messages in the Bible. It can easily be misused.
What if religion (or the Bible) did not exist? We would be responsible for our own actions and choices, and nothing could be forced on anyone in the name of honoring a particular group's view of their God. God would not be used as justification for behavior. Imagine the power that would be taken away from some people (mostly men). I wonder what the world might look like.
Cherry-picking is killing us. I think about a world without religion and I look to my atheist friends for guidance on this. I'm a believer, but there is something to be said about being good for goodness' sake, for creating heaven on earth by your good acts.
I know I am repeating myself mentioning the The Beatitudes, but Jesus speaking those words laid it out in lavender....too bad the EVILgleicals and "money center" churches don't stress them in their 'teachings'?!?
Wow, smoky outside here.
Should say “squirm” after unconventional, ugh. I have always had issues with editing. Gotta get that fixed!
But what about those haters out there that seem to take pleasure watching the peaceniks and others who try loving unconventionally? I am ashamed of my feelings for about 3 folks in this world: 1) a sibling that’d shoot me in a heartbeat, 2) the pastor in the town I lived in, 3) Ron Destroys. Sometimes I can’t even swallow.
Don't you think you can have a righteous anger? Because if you can't, I'm fuuuuucked.
Cognitive speaking yes, bodily speaking not so much. I know I have the right, for true, but that ingrained fucked feeling is tough for me. I’m often self-righteous and that’s a fault folks roll they eyes at, ya know? I ride high horses and fall off and bust my butt, often. And you know where my mouth winds up at times, often. Humph, I’ll whip out a blade and challenge a gun toting cowboy, but my knees buckle at first hint of guilt, bah. I’m my own worst enemy. But otherwise I’ll buck it up.” And I LIKE it.
I just finished reading How to Read the Bible and Still Be a Christian: Struggling with Divine Violence from Genesis Through Revelation, by John Dominic Crossan. It's dense reading, and I wish it were at least twice as long, but the point is that the Bible is replete with examples of the struggle between God's radical dream for the resources of our Earth to be distributed fairly and non-violently among all its people, and on the other hand, civilization's normality that urges me to keep what is mine, to get what is yours, and to acquire more and more forever. He uses examples from the stories of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Paul to illustrate his points, but I think the dichotomy is most obvious in the letters of Paul. Scholars generally agree that 7 were certainly written by Paul, 3 were probably not written by him, and 3 were certainly not written by him. Hence we have the stark contrast of the Paul who dismisses the patriarchy and hierarchies of civilization's normalcy, with the anti-Paul who wrote that slaves must obey their masters and women must be silent in church. The same thing happened to the stories told about Jesus in the four Gospels, but the divisions are less clear cut, with the pull back to the status quo of civilization interspersed with the radicality of God's message of distributive justice.
This book cleared up a lot of my questions, especially how different people could claim to be reading the same book(s) and yet come away with entirely different pictures of who Jesus was and whether his message was one of radical inclusivity or radical punishment (e.g., the Jesus of John's Revelation).
That sounds like a book I need to read. Thank you for the recommendation.
The holier than thou goofballs that I know hate being called fake Christians
But the goofballs that really amaze me are the ones that are not religious and never have been but try to use the Bible to make a stupid point
Especially when they try to somehow convince someone that isn’t religious that their misinterpretation of the Bible will win an argument
There's a lot to unpack there, isn't there?
I was raised Catholic. My first evidence of hypocrisy was when my brother died. He committed suicide. That's a big no no in the Catholic religion. Translation: No funeral in the church. BUT, because my mother was very involved with the church, they turned a blind eye to it. I was a sophomore in high school and could see the glaring hypocrisy in that. This was 46 years ago, and it still pisses me off. I also attended a wedding where the groom was on his 3rd marriage. The bride's uncle was a priest. Then there was the couple where one was getting an annulment. Everything was on track, wedding invites printed, and then all of the sudden there was a last minute glitch that a payment of $2,000 could magically fix. Needless to say, they told the archdiocese to piss off, found a non-demonational chapel to marry in and reprinted part of the wedding invites. When I would say I was pro-choice, I was told I couldn't pick and choose what to believe in the bible as it is not a "cafeteria plan". As for the topic at hand, this is reason #4 as to why I no longer am a believer. I don't want to be part of a "club" that gets off on hate. AND to the members of this club, I would reiterate that the bible is not a "cafeteria plan".